Joint Area Missile Shield Network

((This isnt done yet?????))

Rotaretilbo wrote:[You know, I'm curious. It was never actually stated what the final rendition of JAMSNET would be. Does the 900PP cost include the magical chemical/biological detector? How effectively can this model identify, locate, target, and shoot down short-range low-flying cruise missiles in a very limited window? Are we still going to shoot down all missiles unless a nation asks permission? Are we going to allow all missiles through if a nation asks permission without any verification or investigation process? How exactly will JAMSNET be controlled and maintained?]

It will fund the whole thing. JAMSNET will automatically shoot down WMDs unless a nation requests their use from the security council. If the council decides their reason for using WMDs is justified, they can use them. JAMSNET will be controlled and maintained in the same way as everything else in this game, by unimportant people who aren't worth mentioning.

The scanners work. They are effective. Seriously, how the frick are the KillSats supposed to work? They're giant lasers in space! This game is not based on what we know now. It is the future. Seath wrote his name on the moon, for God's sake. I don't nitpick the plausibility of everything that goes on with your ideas, so why do you nitpick mine?

Rot, you're being a jerk. You have scared all support for this away, and I can only assume it's because JAMSNET would ruin your grand plan. Stop.

DARTH_ZTNEB wrote:((This isnt done yet?????))

It's NEVER gunna be done if you don't donate.

CivBase wrote:

DARTH_ZTNEB wrote:((This isnt done yet?????))

It's NEVER gunna be done if you don't donate.

I'm fine with that part by the way.

((It's worth noting that KillSats are based on the "Thor's Hammer" idea which used to be floating around awhile ago, except that some variants use lasers, but NOT as Civ said, "giant lasers in space." There are no giant lasers in this game.))

CivBase wrote:It will fund the whole thing. JAMSNET will automatically shoot down WMDs unless a nation requests their use from the security council. If the council decides their reason for using WMDs is justified, they can use them. JAMSNET will be controlled and maintained in the same way as everything else in this game, by unimportant people who aren't worth mentioning.

You misunderstand. One system owned by one nation is controlled and maintained by unimportant people who aren't worth mentioning that work for the government of that nation, and are thus under the direct control of that player.

But JAMSNET is not owned by one nation, it would be owned by the World Union. So, if we decide we want to make an exception for WMDs fired by a certain nation, how do we change JAMSNET? I mean, we can't exactly share that, as it really only takes one guy at a computer screen to change a setting. Having twenty-five guys control the setting would be overly redundant, and they'd basically just have to take turns.

CivBase wrote:The scanners work. They are effective. Seriously, how the frick are the KillSats supposed to work? They're giant lasers in space! This game is not based on what we know now. It is the future. Seath wrote his name on the moon, for God's sake. I don't nitpick the plausibility of everything that goes on with your ideas, so why do you nitpick mine?

Sensor that can magically detect molecular compounds inside a sealed lid container are a far cry from lasers in space. How do lasers in space work? By ducttaping a giant military-grade chemical laser to a satellite. The only reason we don't have this yet is because we're still working on making a military-grade chemical laser that is both powerful enough and compact enough to be worth our time. In fact, we may well already have them, though the government probably isn't too keen on telling us just yet.

CivBase wrote:Rot, you're being a jerk. You have scared all support for this away, and I can only assume it's because JAMSNET would ruin your grand plan. Stop.

I'm not trying to be a jerk. But a lot of different people outlined a lot of different things about how JAMSNET would work, and when you gave a price, you didn't outline which of those things the word "JAMSNET" represented. If I recall, you yourself were part of the shoot-down-any-and-every-missile crowd initially, and if that is the case, Germany would oppose JAMSNET on an ethical basis, because that entire concept was bad. If Germany is going to contribute anything to this project, we want to know exactly what it is, what it does, and how effective it is.

Moreover, the top engineers of every nation in the World Union should all get a chance to review the programming and design of the entire system to ensure there are no bugs, loopholes, or backdoors before the system goes live. The last thing we want is for JAMSNET to suddenly go rogue on us, after giving it control of giant space lasers.

why dont ya just give control to those that fund it?

(rot please dont reply)

tiny tim wrote:

CivBase wrote:
It's NEVER gunna be done if you don't donate.

I'm fine with that part by the way.

Idk why you'd post that. All it does is make you look suspicious. At least Rot is giving some kind of reasoning for his criticism.

Rotaretilbo wrote:You misunderstand. One system owned by one nation is controlled and maintained by unimportant people who aren't worth mentioning that work for the government of that nation, and are thus under the direct control of that player.

But JAMSNET is not owned by one nation, it would be owned by the World Union. So, if we decide we want to make an exception for WMDs fired by a certain nation, how do we change JAMSNET? I mean, we can't exactly share that, as it really only takes one guy at a computer screen to change a setting. Having twenty-five guys control the setting would be overly redundant, and they'd basically just have to take turns.

The people who run and 'maintain' JAMSNET - much like the workers for the Bureau of Investigation - would have allegiance only to the World Union.

Rotaretilbo wrote:Sensor that can magically detect molecular compounds inside a sealed lid container are a far cry from lasers in space.

Hardly. The impossible is impossible, there is no variation. I'm assuming that it uses technologies which we do not yet know of.

Rotaretilbo wrote:How do lasers in space work? By ducttaping a giant military-grade chemical laser to a satellite. The only reason we don't have this yet is because we're still working on making a military-grade chemical laser that is both powerful enough and compact enough to be worth our time. In fact, we may well already have them, though the government probably isn't too keen on telling us just yet.

You can't explain how the lasers would work any better than I could explain the scanners. That is my problem. You can't nit-pick every detail like that... but you have, and it's ruined the project.

Rotaretilbo wrote:I'm not trying to be a jerk. But a lot of different people outlined a lot of different things about how JAMSNET would work, and when you gave a price, you didn't outline which of those things the word "JAMSNET" represented. If I recall, you yourself were part of the shoot-down-any-and-every-missile crowd initially, and if that is the case, Germany would oppose JAMSNET on an ethical basis, because that entire concept was bad. If Germany is going to contribute anything to this project, we want to know exactly what it is, what it does, and how effective it is.

The price is for the hardware. If BB wants more PP just to alter the protocols, I'll be happy to foot the bill.

JAMSNET is a World Union project, not a NUCA project. It wont start shooting until the World Union has created clear guidelines.

Rotaretilbo wrote:Moreover, the top engineers of every nation in the World Union should all get a chance to review the programming and design of the entire system to ensure there are no bugs, loopholes, or backdoors before the system goes live. The last thing we want is for JAMSNET to suddenly go rogue on us, after giving it control of giant space lasers.

Certainly. That does no good if there is no system, though. The idea was to have JAMSNET be created by all the World Union nations in order to prevent anything like that from happening.

laxspartan007 wrote:why dont ya just give control to those that fund it?

Because then JAMSNET would stop being a defensive system. It would become a superweapon, which is exactly what we're trying to prevent.

Ignore

"It seems like if it is to be an official WU system, it should have gone through a vote."

There's nothing in the charter that says this needed to be voted on. Besides, funding JAMSNET was the only real problem. Once we have enough money and JAMSNET is created, I see no reason why the World Union wouldn't want it. We can vote on it then, if you want, but I anticipate the results to be largely one-sided.

I could very easily see the protocol for it's use being voted on. Not everyone will agree with the concept of shooting down every missile, as you proposed."

tiny tim wrote:I could very easily see the protocol for it's use being voted on. Not everyone will agree with the concept of shooting down every missile, as you proposed."

The original idea was for ICBMs and WMDs to be shot down, not every missile. The ICBM part met resistance and was retracted long ago.


I edited the original post with some more details.

I only nitpick because BB probably already has or will when the time for it to be used comes. I mean, have you confirmed with BB the percent chance for success/failure this would have at stopping cruise missiles? Or are we just assuming that if BB gave it a cost, it must work every time without fail?

UUU contributions:
Federation of Bolivia - 40 pp
Victoria - 15 pp

Rotaretilbo wrote:I only nitpick because BB probably already has or will when the time for it to be used comes. I mean, have you confirmed with BB the percent chance for success/failure this would have at stopping cruise missiles? Or are we just assuming that if BB gave it a cost, it must work every time without fail?

I'd assume that if there was any such chance, he would have outlined it when he wrote the "how it works" paragraph that came with the cost of the project.